Compiled by Damaghosa dasa (Seattle, USA)
This is a very nice presentation by some of the devotee scientists (all Phd's in chemistry, math, and physics) to Srila Prabhupada regarding laws of nature and the origins of life. They show that the "laws" the material scientists know of are too limited to produce complex development in living things. Simply put, no matter how many times you drive a volkswagen beetle around the block, it will never become a Cadillac Escalade. They showed to Srila Prabhupada by mathematical theorems that cellular evolutionary theory is simply, statistically, impossible and even a small celled organism would take more years to evolve (if it could) than the lifetime of Lord Brahma ! Which from our standpoint, in years of time, is beyond our imagination, and according to them (the scientists) longer or older than the age of this universe! So who is going to wait around for that to – supposedly happen?
They also showed by quantum mechanics that to observe something, when you take the observer and the observed back further from the microscope, back to eyeball, and further back, that still to explain something, you still needed the "observer” or something non physical – the consciousness or the soul. It is a very good presentation on the "science" of God Consciousness as opposed to atheistic theory.
July 3 1976 Wash DC-Life comes from Life
Prabhupada: So you are searching, you are surprised how this direction is coming. Here is the answer, mattaḥ, "from Me." The answer is there.
Sadaputa: A comparison can be made with things like this, and, say, a computerized factory. A computerized factory, there has to be direction all the time, or else it breaks down.
Prabhupada: Yes, that direction is coming from Krishna. He is all-perfect.
Svarupa Damodara: The instructions are given so vividly here, that first there is called the initiation step. It has to get specific information coded in this, they are called bases, and now, then it elongates, and then finally it's called stop signal. There's some message coming that "You stop right there." And if there is some mistake or something wrong along the path, then there will be a correction signal: "You made a mistake, so correct there." This type of…
Prabhupada: Just see how perfect. How perfect it is. (laughs) Purnam idam purnat purnam udacyate [Isopanisad, Invocation]. Because the direction is coming from the purnam, complete, so correction is made and everything is done, everything nicely. Because the direction is coming from the complete perfect, there cannot be any mistake. That's it.
Svarupa Damodara: So this is actually the first step of protein synthesis. In order to make proteins, this messenger RNA has to be transcribed from this DNA molecule. In the next step you'll see the final step for protein synthesis. Now there are also RNA's—they are called transfer RNA, those white-coloured, white and yellow coloured things. (laughter) Each of them has to bring a specific amino acid, coded to a specific code, three base codes, base pair. Now each of them has to bring a specific amino acid and to put it together in a very specific manner. They cannot scramble. Because if it scrambles there's not going to be…
Prabhupada: Again mistake, again mistake.
Svarupa Damodara: Yes. So it cannot happen.
Prabhupada: Just rightly. So much direction is there, perfect.
Svarupa Damodara: Yes. So like that, then, when the…, once they bring these amino acids one by one, then they stick together, and that also process is done by enzymes. There are so many steps involved, and very intricate. It is actually done by a catalyst called enzymes. Enzymes are also very big molecules, actually they are also proteins, and in each step the enzymes are so specific that they do only one specific function just for the right purpose and once this is done then slowly the protein separates at the right time and with the proper length and proper number of amino acids. In this way, actually we can prove in every case that…
Prabhupada: Perfect direction.
Svarupa Damodara: Yes, the direction of the Supersoul is a necessity. In whatever condition we look at, even in the molecules.
Prabhupada: So nice management, there must be nice direction.
Rupanuga: No question of chance.
Pusta Kṛishna: Andantara-stha-paramanu-cayantara-stham. Krishna is in every atom.
Prabhupada: Yes, and He… If somebody says how the atoms are working like that, the Krishna's…, Brahma says, andantara-stha-paramanu-cayantara-stham. He is within the atom also, the Supreme. Therefore it is acting so nice. Eko py asau racayitum jagad-anda-kotim [Bs. 5.35]. Whole material world is going on under His direction, and He is acting within the atom also. Andantara-stha-paramanu-cayantara-stham. As He is directing this cosmic arrangement, similarly He is directing from the atom, within the atom also. That is omnipotency.
Svarupa Damodara: So we want to develop these concepts and prove…
Prabhupada: Yes, Krishna will help you.
Svarupa Damodara: Now later on, when Sadaputa speaks, there will be similar concepts, but that is applied to the human platform called inspiration and proving the existence of Paramatma, Supersoul. Actually, it ties together very well. Even from the molecular level we can see this, and in the human platform actually it is very vividly,…
Svarupa Damodara: We can feel it.
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes.
Svarupa Damodara: So in all branches of study, either it is physical or chemical or mathematical, in all branches of science, we want to show the existence of Krishna.
Prabhupada: His hand is working.
Svarupa Damodara: Yes.
Prabhupada: Mayadhyakshena prakrtih suyate sa caracaram [Bg. 9.10]. That is the fact. That is Krishna conscious.
Svarupa Damodara: So these are some of the chemical concepts that I described earlier. Next Sadaputa will take over, and he'll describe the mathematical and physical concepts of proving the existence of Paramatma.
Prabhupada: Yes, do it.
Pusta Krishna: Would you like to (indistinct) tonight Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Why not? What business we have got? (laughter)
Svarupa Damodara: Shall I offer it for you?
Sadaputa: This slide shows…, these are the laws of nature according to physicists. And the point we make is that this is their understanding of the final cause of things, and it's very limited. Actually, on this one page, these equations describe everything that goes into all the actions and interactions of chemistry according to their present understanding. And, so there are two main points to make about this.
Number one, these are very…, these laws describe very simple forces, pushes and pulls between atoms and things like that. And so intuitively it is very hard to imagine why such simple forces should cause anything complex to organize itself together. Now the scientists customarily make the assertion that laws like this are universal, but one thing we can notice is they have no proof of that. These laws which they say are universal are only studied in certain limited experimental situations with inanimate matter, and then they extrapolate and they say that they apply to everything. But actually the equations are so hard to solve even for reasonably simple molecules that they can't actually test out their assertion. So it's actually just a bluffing statement. So in this slide we wanted to point out how limited these laws are, how limited their concept of the laws of nature is.
The next slide, according to the scientist's idea, there are two things going on—these laws and also chance. So this is a calculation showing what happens if you just have chance acting to form one of these proteins that Svarupa Damodara was talking about, and you can calculate… Actually here you calculate, suppose you threw a protein together at chance—and here we even allow a ten percent error, you're allowing to get it wrong among ten percent of the proteins—but still chance comes out to ten minus two-hundred-and forty-fourth-power.
Now the scientists are always saying if you wait for a long enough time, even something very unlikely can happen; but here we have a calculation of how long you'd have to wait, according to mathematics and the probability theory, and even if you assume an unrealistically high rate of forming proteins at random, still you'd have to wait, according to this, ten to the hundred-and-sixty-seventh-power billion years. And that's a little bit too long. (laughter)